I've been through the city ordinances, and...

[HomesteadBaker]

I CAN HAVE CHICKENS IN TOWN!!!! Provided, of course, I jump through the city's hoops. And I can have no more than..... get this...... 3 mature chickens.

** I have to fill out an application to keep said chickens and submit it to the city's Dept of Health

** Must provide my property tax ID number

** Must request permission to keep number and type of animal

** Must attach a drawing of the plot plan with area for chickens identified

** Must indicate distances from the property lines (must be at least 15ft fom lines)

** Must provide total square footage available for animal

** Must submit a building plan for the proposed shelter and run

** Must provide measures to be taken to ensure no nuisance is caused to other people/property


PLUS, I have to sign a sworn affidavit that all of the above information provided is true to the best of my knowledge; that the permit may be revoked for any violation or disturbance/ nuisance; and authorized city official may enter my property at "reasonable times" to verify compliance.

PLUS, there is yearly a fee to keep said chickens within the city limits... but they don't tell you how much it is in the city ordinances.


Do you get the impression that the city doesn't want anyone to keep chickens??!

**sigh** I guess I'll be jumping through hoops soon! :rolleyes:

[Backyard Permaculture]

Boy are you conformist.

Patti, our garden girl inspiration, is not allowed to have chickens or goats in the city where she lives. But she does.

Horaaayy for anarchy

LOL

Ron

[HomesteadBaker]

Yeah..... well they don't tell you what the yearly fee is to keep chickens, but they DO tell you what the DAILY FINE is to keep them without a permit..... it is $1000 PER DAY!

And I do have "one of those" (nosey, psycho beeeaawtch) neighbors who will cause trouble for me...... so, since I WANT to keep my 3 city chickens, and don't have $1000/day to throw away, I guess it is hoop jumping for me. :(

[Kittikity]

Patti has had great luck with some awesome neighbors and city authorities.. Unfortunately, not everybody is that decent or understanding and some places have some of the most ridicuous laws written by some of the most closed minded and/or uninformed law makers out there.. Then again, some of these laws probably have very good reasons they were written..

Maybe try the tactic that Patti practices and share your harvest.. I'm not talking making it a daily habit.. But if you have extra eggs or something, why not share it? Still follow the rules for keeping your chickens.. But sharing any extra might make your neighbor less objectionable..

[Garden Green]

Well, you know, they make these laws because some handful of people screwed it up for the rest of us. It was probably some guy that let his run free and it kept eating the neighbors favorite geranium or something. Or the guy's cat kept crapping on the neighbors paper and he thought it was funny so the upset neighbor hit him below the belt.

You never can tell about these things.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

I'd just like to say, it could be worse.. they could say NO chickens?

I think all the listed requirements seem reasonable...

And the fee may be only a filing fee, say $20.00 or less?

Three good hens are better than nothing at all and when you've met the requirements and have a certificate, then you needn't hide your birds.

I didn't see anything in the guidelines which seemed extreme.

Your neighbor may be a twit... and the only way you are going to be inspected, is if someone complains.

I can't keep bees without a permit, and I live way out in the sticks. I just find it easier to comply with existing ordinances.

You can also get a consensus of those who support backyard poultry and move to expand/relaxe the current regs, to include say, more birds?

I've seen backyard runs that are terrible and jammed with featherless pasty butted birds kept on dirt and waste, all so someone could sell their "free range" eggs.

As someone else stated, it's "some" people, who ruin it for those who would do the right thing regardless of specific ordinances, but they are necessary to provide a legal tool to deal with those who abuse the privilege of keeping any animals.

Unhealthy conditions can manifest themselves in a very short time frame, if available space is inadequate for the number of animals kept. I also like that they mandate adequate housing and runs.

As I said, at least you CAN keep chickens. (">

[MoniDew]

I was afraid of this...

wishing you the best - in jumping through all those hoops.

[HomesteadBaker]

Fred, trust me, I am not complaining... especially after the uproar in this town last Aug/Sept over a little girl's pet chicken. She was forced to give up her chicken even though it was kept in a clean cage on her back porch in a yard that was behind a 6' privacy fence!!! This girl lived a few blocks from one of the schools and the "concerned citizen" that started all this mess was "afraid the chicken might end up in the school"!

The whole situation was ridiculous.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Poor little girl.. didn't that school ever have a chick hatching project in their elementary program?

How now, brown cow, did they handle that? I wonder...

The poorest chickens you've ever seen are already in our schools... problem is, you have to go to the cafeteria to see them ;}

Those are instances where I'd contact local media and get the person who lodged the complaint on film... it's amazing how silly their ideas/fears become when vetted in the open air waves. Local news folks love these human interest stories... was it covered by the way?

[HomesteadBaker]

It was covered by the local newspaper, but only because word got out about "the city officials" breaking a child's heart. Aneighboring newspaper carried the story first! Not sure if it was covered by any of the Erie tv stations or not.

All children are supposed to learn about animals at the grocery store! Did you not know that???? I don't think the schools are allowed to do egg hatching anymore because of the "bird flu" insanity.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

You mean to tell me that your school districts there don't allow embryology units because of H5N1?

It's amazing that we are even in the same county.. oy vey. The school districts in this area, Corry, Wattsburg, North Eeast, Iriquios, Union City all do hatching units. I provide the fertile eggs for them ("> The Erie County Technical School is doing egg incubation this spring also... I would also suspect that Crawford County Tech also deals with chickens in their Ag program. The Director there, Neil Donovan is a good friend of mine.

If anyone is claiming that the Avian Influenza H5N1, H5N7, or any other H5 line is carried within the fertile egg and is potentially hazardous to children doing a hatching unit in school.. then I would politely ask the School Board to excuse that individual from teaching any science based curriculum...

I'm a friendly guy, easy going, happy to learn, but however, have a short fuse for those within our educational system, who simply do not understand viral basics.

Hatching eggs can come from a certified flock, complete with a VS-Form 9-3.. which is what accompanies the eggs I deliver. Ask them to kindly contact Dr. Dunn, or Dr. Nan Hanshaw in the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Services down at State College... (Penn State) if someone has any serious concerns.

I feel bad for you Kitty... you seem to hit stone walls at every turn there! I don't know how you do it... You're in Titusville.. right?

Take care my friend (">

[HomesteadBaker]

Fred, I have no idea if they do an embryology program in and of the schools... or even if they still do incubation project in the elementary schools anymore.

Is it costly to get your flock certified? Could I get my "flock of 3" certified (as a shield against public ignorance), or would the cost be too prohibitive?

Yes, I am in Titusville... and for all it's contribution to the history of this nation, it is truly one of the most "closed-minded" places in which I have lived.

I will begin my hoop jumping soon. I have even gone to google earth and printed out the satellite view of my property so the powers that be can see how my property is situated in comparison to my neighbors. I would like to be able to eventually have the elementary school and day care children take a field trip to my sustainable urban homestead. I have great plans... and speaking of plans, I need to get busy on designing the chicken coop/tractor plans.

Can I get informational assistance from you if I need to pry open some of the closed minds here?

At any rate, let the hoop jumping begin.... ;)

[gardengirl72]

Personally I would jump through the hoop if there was a hoop. In my city it is simply forbiden. Everything, Rabbits, Chickens, Goats. Everything. I wish they had given me hoops to jump through.

My method is to simply do what I do in Broad Daylight. I have a couple of theory's that may hold true if I was every brought up on charges.

1. My property has had livestock on it continuously since 1794.
2. The law is unjust and must therefore be broken.
3. I have now got my entire community involved, from my neighborhood schools, to the youth centers.
4. A portion of everthing I grow or rais e is available to my direct neighbors as a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. (This is the most important thing I do).

Frankly I wish they would give me some rules I could follow.

[Kittikity]

Patti Moreno for next president! Forging the way for a better tomorrow!

[HomesteadBaker]

Part of the reason I am wanting to do this is because of what "the city" did to that little girl and her pet chicken and pet rabbit. When I found the city ordinances I actually laughed out loud.... and my Mother says from the next room "my, that was an evil laugh". Then I told her what I wanted to do... and WHY. She said to go for it, so did my 17 year old son. I want to see if the city will even issue me a permit to keep my "3 mature chickens" (as per city ordinance).

The other part of the reason is that I just flat out miss having my chickens!

So wish me limberness and grace in my hoop jumping!!

I will be drawing on the expert advice of all of you.

[HomesteadBaker]

Patti Moreno for next president! Forging the way for a better tomorrow!

At the very least, she needs to be Secretary of Agriculture!!!! LOL

[gardengirl72]

:)Agriculture or the EPA would be just fine. As long as I wasn't working for an idiot.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Kitty,

No problem, if I can help you in any way within my capacity to do so, I certainly will.

As for "certifying" your birds? It's very cheap, but takes some time. You need a licensed poultry tech to come and blood test your birds and collect your information. The tech (licensed by the PA Dept. of Agriculture) will also do a site inspection to verify your birds are pure (if you want NPIP status only) breeds.

One test a year is all it takes, but for a certified clean certificate (not essential) you will need all your birds tested at intervals.

For three chickens, I don't know if I would go through all of that? Up here, I hold blood testing clinics, where I inspect the birds, draw blood, or cloaca swabbing for water fowl, and give unique DOA bands for traceability. And I do a general health inspection and answer questions.

I also administer the LT vaccine for those birds headed for county fairs.

Guess what I charge kids? n o t h i n g (anyone under 18, I sponser them for fair entries)

All the lab work is done down at Penn State, one of the most advanced labs in the nation for this purpose. It's also one of the primary facilities where AI is being studied.

So, what I am saying to you, Dear Kitty... bring those feathered rascals up route 89 as far as Wattsburg or Union City and I'll do the testing and paperwork for you :} You know, because I'm nice like that.

Or, just contact your Ag extension office and they can put you in touch with a licensed Poultry Tech that can help you out I'm sure. Dr. Martin at the Meadeville Region 1 Ag Office is a good friend of mine also... they will go out of their way for you.

Have questions? I have solutions.. well, most of the time..

[HomesteadBaker]

Thank you, Fred!

If you are in Crawford County, too, then we live closer than I thought. Are you in Wattsburg?

[gardengirl72]

Fred is the BEST!

[HomesteadBaker]

Fred is the BEST!

I agree! I hope we will be meeting later this spring!!!