More about filling raised beds

[wyogardener]

I know there's been a lot of discussion about this - but my beds are built and I still can't decide what to fill them with. Obviously, I want something I can afford and that won't be too difficult. I wanted to do Mel's Mix, but finding vermiculite around here is really hard and it's very expensive. I'm wondering about just mixing peat, sand, and compost. Or maybe seeing if I can get organic soil delivered that's ready to use. After all this work, I don't want to blow it by filling the beds with so-so soil.:(

Any suggestions?

[Cynthia]

I had to buy organic mix. The local Stone & Soil Depot has a mix that includes compost and others things - it is pretty good. I added a lot of compost to the beds, and continue to build up the organics in the soil. It was a beautiful mix but it seemed "sterile" as I suppose purchased organic soil is going to be.

I did not do this on all beds, but on my latest ones, I have filled them about 1/2 with composting leaves and then topped with soil. That would've made the whole garden a lot less expensive and the soil in these newer beds seems more lively.

Overall, make the best choice you can and know that you can add to it with compost tea, organic compost, and the like.

[Kevin]

Sorry folks, I may have quite a few of you against me on this one but here goes. I absolutetely refuse to pay good money on dirt. I start my beds as an enormous compost piles ( oak leaves , seaweed , water hyacynth , hydrilla , fish heads and parts, florida sand , pine needles.coffee grounds , Horse, chicken, rabbit manure, Etc). Then when it gets good and ripe , I put one of Patti's chicken /rabbit tractors on top for a couple months.Add some earth worms from the bait shop and your all set . There is nothing commercially available that even comes close to this . Next year or as soon as they lift our burning ban(we are in a drought here) I also intend to incorporate biochar charcoal in the mix. Just my way of looking at it, Kevin

[Aspen]

I would love to follow your example, Kevin, but it isn't possible for me at this time. I compost everything I can, but I am actually limited on what is available. There are no trees for me to take leaves from. Our trees are all about two feet tall. I have made arrangements to gather leaves from others this fall. We do not have grass to use the clippings.

We do compost chicken and bunny bedding, as well as kitchen scraps and coffee grounds. That is about it. So, our composts grows very slowly. My soil here is all sand. I live in southern Indiana and if I scrape away the vegetation, it looks like a beach. It is good for growing corn, soybeans, and melons if you use commercial fertilizer, pesticides and herbicides. I do not wish to grow directly in the soil for several more years.

We will be starting our worm composter this weekend.

Hub is very interested in making biochar. I expect to come home one of these days and find a flaming trench.

In order to start our beds this year, we did have to purchase soil. I would rather do like Kevin, but I did not want to wait.

[Sinfonian]

Kevin, fewer people would disagree with you than you think. What you describe is what most of us strive for. After this season, my beds will have settled to a point that I need to add to them. By then my two years of composting just about everything in site should be enough to add an inch or two to 130 SF of beds.

In the mean time, fill your beds with the best stuff your budget will allow and start composting enverything you can. Or do lasagna gardening and wait for it to cook. The options are limitless so find what works for you.

[Cynthia]

I think we all do the best we can with what we have. and, at least for me, this is all a learning experience. Its great to have people like Kevin around who have the ability, resources, and patience to build beautiful soil like that - but we also have to let our own best be "good enough"

[wyogardener]

Okay, Sinfonian, I know you used Mel's Mix. Is it worth the expense? And where did you find the vermiculite? The best I've been able to do so far is find a nursery that has one 3 cu. ft. bag. I even tried the Farm Supply store in the nearest city and they acted like I was crazy. Compost and peat are easy, but I'm having trouble with the final 1/3 (and unfortunately, I don't have a lot of materials just lying around that I can use - I'm getting a compost pile going and I have some leaves from last Fall, but that's it). Oh, and as far as letting it cook for a while goes, I want to be ready to plant by May 1 so doing lasagne layering and letting it sit isn't really an option.

[plantoneonme]

Wyo, you could do sort of a 1/2 and 1/2 bed. Fill the bottom with anything you can get that will compost and then fill the top 6-8 " with the purchased soil. The plants will do just as well and you may save a few $$$ in the process. The hot weather crops such as tomatoes will love the warm feet:D

Kim

[Sinfonian]

Okay, Sinfonian, I know you used Mel's Mix. Is it worth the expense? And where did you find the vermiculite? The best I've been able to do so far is find a nursery that has one 3 cu. ft. bag. I even tried the Farm Supply store in the nearest city and they acted like I was crazy. Compost and peat are easy, but I'm having trouble with the final 1/3 (and unfortunately, I don't have a lot of materials just lying around that I can use - I'm getting a compost pile going and I have some leaves from last Fall, but that's it). Oh, and as far as letting it cook for a while goes, I want to be ready to plant by May 1 so doing lasagne layering and letting it sit isn't really an option.

I get it, you are just like I was, and most other new gardeners. For me, Mel's mix was worth the expense and I would do it again. Of course I shopped around to get the cheapest prices.

I always tell folks to call your nursery and see if they have 4 c ft bags of course vermiculite in quantity. If not, ask who their supplier is. I found a localish wholesaler that does a little retail and got it for less than half the nursery price. The prices were so good I found peat there too.

Keep up the composting. Add all the non-meat kitchen scraps you generate and other free stuff and you'll have great compost to amend your beds next season.

[Sinfonian]

Okay, Sinfonian, I know you used Mel's Mix. Is it worth the expense? And where did you find the vermiculite? The best I've been able to do so far is find a nursery that has one 3 cu. ft. bag. I even tried the Farm Supply store in the nearest city and they acted like I was crazy. Compost and peat are easy, but I'm having trouble with the final 1/3 (and unfortunately, I don't have a lot of materials just lying around that I can use - I'm getting a compost pile going and I have some leaves from last Fall, but that's it). Oh, and as far as letting it cook for a while goes, I want to be ready to plant by May 1 so doing lasagne layering and letting it sit isn't really an option.


I get it, you are just like I was, and most other new gardeners. For me, Mel's mix was worth the expense and I would do it again. Of course I shopped around to get the cheapest prices.

I always tell folks to call your nursery and see if they have 4 c ft bags of course vermiculite in quantity. If not, ask who their supplier is. I found a localish wholesaler that does a little retail and got it for less than half the nursery price. The prices were so good I found peat there too.

Keep up the composting. Add all the non-meat kitchen scraps you generate and other free stuff and you'll have great compost to amend your beds next season.

[Kevin]

I would love to follow your example, Kevin, but it isn't possible for me at this time. I compost everything I can, but I am actually limited on what is available. There are no trees for me to take leaves from. Our trees are all about two feet tall. I have made arrangements to gather leaves from others this fall. We do not have grass to use the clippings.

We do compost chicken and bunny bedding, as well as kitchen scraps and coffee grounds. That is about it. So, our composts grows very slowly. My soil here is all sand. I live in southern Indiana and if I scrape away the vegetation, it looks like a beach. It is good for growing corn, soybeans, and melons if you use commercial fertilizer, pesticides and herbicides. I do not wish to grow directly in the soil for several more years.

We will be starting our worm composter this weekend.

Hub is very interested in making biochar. I expect to come home one of these days and find a flaming trench.

In order to start our beds this year, we did have to purchase soil. I would rather do like Kevin, but I did not want to wait.

Aspen, Your not that far from where we're at with this. Obviously you have already gotten rid of the proverbial lawn, you are planting trees ( hopefully fruit trees) You own chickens and rabbits, and are interested in earth worms .You are light years ahead of the average organic beginner out there . Be patient and keep doing what your doing , It takes time. Trust me , you are gonna look back at this post someday and laugh. P.S. tell your husband you want a flaming trench with steel barrels in it (indirect biochar ) Good luck , Kevin

[Aspen]

Thanks, Kevin. Actually, Hub decided he wanted to make biochar after reading the latest Mother Earth News. Awesome!

We have planted fruit trees and I am looking for more, preferably dwarf varieties. I have three semi-dwarf trees, two apple and a peach, but would love more.

I was reading through Mel's original book this evening and something struck me. He advises against using animal manure in compost. I was surprised! After my chickens have worked their bedding (deep litter method), it is awesome in the compost bin. I found it funny that he was worried about the spread of e. coli. Mel stated that the compost wouldn't heat enough to kill the e. coli. My compost steams when I turn it, even in the dead of winter.

Another thing, Mel recommends the use of peat. Although this is a wonderful, rich ammendment, it is also a finite resource, much like oil. Peat bogs take millions of years to form. So, I have been avoiding peat. I think my soil will do fine if I keep at it!

[Sinfonian]

Animal manure is complcated, that's probably why he blanket advised against it. Certain animals can go directly into the garden and some need aging. Some contain more weed seeds and need to be hot composted. If you've done your research on your choice of manuer, then use it. The SFG book is a beginners guide to raised bed intensive gardening.

Good luck and enjoy!

[JudyH]

I was also able to find the vermiculite at my local Home Depot for the last two years. Unfortunately, this year, they are no longer carrying it :mad: and I have more new beds to fill.

There is a local nursery that is getting some in (but not cheap) and I could get it there. Another idea is to contact one of the companies in your area that installs concrete pools. They mix vermiculite in with the concrete to make it "softer".... so you can imagine how much they must use. I am going to try this.

[JudyH]

I am also planning on using my chicken bedding (deep litter method) in my compost pile when my chicks get old enough. Right now, I've been using a little of the "Black Hen" organic chicken manure (bagged) that I can purchase at the local feed/seed store. It's from the same company that makes the Black Kow cow manure compost.

I work the Black Hen into the soil before planting. So far the plants love it. Also on the label of the bag, it says that it will not burn plants (because it has been composted).

Patti's method of putting the chickens in tractors right on the raised bed is such a great idea. Unfortunately, my beds are not all the same size... But, my beds are all at least 2 feet wide so I might build some sort of tractor that is 2 feet wide by maybe 4 feet long. Then I can put some of my chicks into my beds to do the clean up work when the veggies are finished. Plus, they can take care of slugs and other unwanted insects!

[Kevin]

Sinfonian , you are correct this, subject is very complicated. The rule of thumb for composting manure is never use manure from carnivorous animals, (dogs, cats , etc.) And it goes without saying ,human feces , is a case of salmonella waiting to happen. One more thing most people are really confused on is E coli bacteria itself . Ecoli is present in the digestive tracts of most mammals including man. It is an indicator species that scientists use to determine the presence of feces . Now if the source of this feces is human (sewage ; not washing hands , etc.) , They naturally make the assumption That pathenogenic bacteria such as salmonella is present. It is very difficult to test for some disease causing bacteria and viruses in the field. It is extremely easy to detect E coli. So is the presence of E coli dangerous ? Yes if the source is Human. If the source is a rabbit , probably not.

[JudyH]

Kevin, that's what I've always heard too -- only use the manure from animals that are not meat consumers.

Most all manure does need to be composted before using because it will burn plants if used directly. But, at the same time, I've heard that you can use rabbit manure directly into the soil that you plant in because it is mild and that it won't burn the plants. I guess it kinda makes sense because many rabbit farmers grow worms in beds directly below their rabbit bins -- it doesn't burn the worms.

But I don't have any bunnies :( (wish I did!!!) so I haven't tried using bunny poo in the garden.

[Kevin]

Kevin, that's what I've always heard too -- only use the manure from animals that are not meat consumers.

Most all manure does need to be composted before using because it will burn plants if used directly. But, at the same time, I've heard that you can use rabbit manure directly into the soil that you plant in because it is mild and that it won't burn the plants. I guess it kinda makes sense because many rabbit farmers grow worms in beds directly below their rabbit bins -- it doesn't burn the worms.

But I don't have any bunnies :( (wish I did!!!) so I haven't tried using bunny poo in the garden.

Judy, A rabbit is a composters dream come true . Think about this . If I take weeds from my neighbors yard , and put them in my compost pile , .I will have taken vital nutrients from his yard and placed them in mine. the whole process from weeds to usable compost takes roughly six months. Now if I take those same weeds and feed them to my rabbits, I have usable compost basically over night. In my opinion anyone trying to learn how to grow organically should start with rabbits.

[Aspen]

I love my bunnies, the little poop factories! I have two right now and often dump their poo right on the garden beds that I haven't planted yet.